Gus Westcott: My guest today is the reknowned Pan Africanist and Muslim activist Ralston X otherwise known as Uthman Malik Abdal Hakim, formerly a member of the Nation of Islam under the honourable Elijah Muhammad and also founding memmber of the Organisation of Afro American Unity or OAAU along with the more popularly known Malcolm X. Firstly Brother Ralston let me welcome you to the studios of WCLX FM and say how honoured I am to have you on the Show.

Ralston X:  Thank you, I'm honoured to be here.

Gus:  I'd like to first set the scene a little bit for some of our younger listeners. You were actually born in Brooklyn New York but your parents were from the Caribbean Islands.

X:  Well my father was from Tobago and my mother from Guyana:

Gus:  OK. You actually spent several years at school in Guyana before returning to the United States. You became a member of the Nation of Islam in 1963 under the Honourable Elijah Muhammad and subsequently split from the Nation along with Malcolm X.

X:  Actually some time before Malcolm X along with many others.

Gus:  Yes precisely. Then you helped form Muslim Mosque Incorporated and also the Organisation of Afro American Unity or OAAU. Since then the public details of your life have been very sketchy and you seem to have purposely shunned any publicity. What I would like to do is talk about your time in the Nation of Islam and your relationship with the Honourable Elijah Muhammad, with Malcolm X and with the present leader Minister Louis Farrakhan.

X:  I think it is more important to talk about the present and the steps we need to take to turn our own situation around. Books have been written and films have been made around the life of Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad and claims and counter claims have been thrown around since even before 1965, so people have had plenty of time and plenty of information from which to form opinions. I am not here to challenge anyones opinions on Malcolm X or the Nation of Islam.

Gus:  Does this mean you do not see eye to eye with Minister Farrakhan?

X:  It means I have not, set eyes, on Mr Farrakhan for nearly twenty years, and am therefore not in a position to comment on his, or the Nation of Islam's current activities.

Gus:  Then does this mean you no longer have friends who are currently involved with the Nation of Islam?

X:  No. It means that over the years people change and there outlook changes. It means that as our thinking matures so does our outlook on life and we begin to see deeper and deeper below the surface and we begin to see what the real issues are. Therefore ones conversations mature and there is little room for chit chat on the day to day runnings of the Nation of Islam or any other such group. They are a well known group with a large following and excellent recruitment techniques, and in fact I would urge any of your interested listeners to find where they meet and go and hear what they have to say. I think that they will find their meetings are never dull and even sometimes informative, but I think we should move on to more important matters.

Gus:  I think you've made your position quite clear and thank you for that. Let me then ask you. Is there anything you can add or clarify concerning the death of Malcolm X, that is not already common knowledge?

X:  Again let me say there is a wealth of available information for those truly interested, so any clarity must be about the time since Malcolm X, myself and others formed Muslim Mosque Incorporated and later the Organisation of Afro American Unity.

Gus:  So this is the point when it was no longer seen as a religious struggle but a civil struggle?

X:  What people have to realise is that we were Mulims and we were convinced Islam held all the answers for us, but we also realised that there were some very important principles we had to work with all the time. One, We had not been taught the true Islam of the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him. and two, That in our situation we were not in a position to or did we want to, impose any kind of religious or moral code on anyone. Also after much study we realised that a serious and unbiased look at Africa, especially West Africa held the key to a lot of what we needed to know. Therefore as a result of this we began to thoroughly research African History.

Gus:  and what were your main discoveries?

X:  Islam

Gus:  Can you be more specific?

X:  Well it's a fact that West African history over the last one thousand years is for the main part a history of the spread of Islam in Africa. No one can deny this so those who are serious will have to address this point at some stage. It doesn't mean people must become Muslims. It means people must understand how and why it spread, how and why it declined and what it produced, and what it did or didn't do for the people.

Gus:  Is this then the reason why Malcolm X visited Africa and the Arab states?

X:  All these things would have been a major influence

Gus:  Did you visit any of these places yourself?

X:  Not at that time, but since then I have spent a lot of time travelling between different communities in different countries, but as far as Malcolm X is concerned I believe that what motivated him was simply his persistence in pursuing the truth and acting according to it.

Gus:  Would you say that this is the greatest lesson we could learn from him.

X:  What I believe are the most important things that anyone who wishes to emulate Malcolm X need to take on are one, his integrity. In that I mean the fact that he would move from one position to that of a better one once he discovered that there was something higher and better to aspire to and so he died striving towards the best goal he thought man could aspire to. One thing I heard Malcolm say on many occasions was that adults could learn a great lesson from children which was not to be afraid of failure but to always get up and try again. That's why I'm sure if he had lived longer it wouldn't have taken him long to reach the position we have reached today in terms of analysis of our time and the way to deal with it. But I think that he was a man of tremendous character and he always strived to perfect his character and that is the lesson we should all begin to take on today.

Gus:  Did he have a special method of this trying to perfect his character?

X:  There are many aspects to good character which include loyalty, integrity, honesty, good timekeeping, finishing what you start, sticking to your word, generosity and other things that one can imagine. At the time Malcolm X was killed we had just come to realise that all these qualities we desired had been manifested in the Prophet Muhammad , peace and blessings be upon him. So that is where we had begun to take our example from and many people realised this.

Gus:  Continuing on the topic of travel. On your own travels you must have met many interesting people and learned much that you would like to see implemented here in America?

X:  Yes I have met some tremendous and interesting people from all walks of life.

Gus:  I'm going to ask you about some of those people but first are there any people that you dislike meeting?

X:  Politically you know I can't answer that.

Gus:  Alright no specifics just the kind of questions they ask?

X:  There are a set of people who call themselves a mixture of socialists, revolutionaries and Pan Africanists. Now there is nothing necessarily wrong with these titles or indeed people who follow these philosophies, but there are a section of them who think that they are, what they actually are not.

Gus: You mean the people themselves are not what they think themselves to be?

X:  Yes

Gus:  In what sense?

X:  There are some of them who have a whole bag of rhetoric about Africa and don't have a clue about how the majority of Africans actually live. Then they take some of Africa's finest sons and totally distort what these people were about. So in effect what they propogate is actually not only totally alien to traditional African culture but would actually destroy Africa.

Gus:  Are you making reference to anyone in particular?

X:  You mean in terms of who's lives they distort?

Gus:  Yes, but also what they propogate.

X:  The most obvious and common examples are Marcus Garvey, Kwame Nkrumah and Malcolm X.

Gus:  What would you say is the actual nature of this distortion of the lives or philosophies of these people?

X:  I'll give you an example.I met a man in London England some years ago by the name of Bashir Kwanzaa who used to be the Foreign Minister, or what we would call Foreign Secretary, in the government of Kwame Nkrumah. What struck me was that I had recently attended a so called black Nationalist stroke socialist conference in which they had been claiming to be following a path of Toureism\Nkrumahism based on the philosophies of Sekou Toure and Kwame Nkrumah. At the time these people were totally dismissive of any role Islam had to play in Africa.

However when I met this man Bashir Kwanzaa who is a Muslim he told me that he had not always been a Muslim, in fact he had been a Roman Catholic. Naturally I asked what had been the main cause behind him taking this step to the truth and he told me that one day Kwame Nkrumah asked him to go and study Islam. Naturally he was surprised and asked, why him? considering he was a catholic. He told me that Nkrumah replied "because Islam is the future of Africa. Islam is the future of Africa" I recall this story not to tell people to become Muslims, but to make the point that If you respect anyone that much then don't just take one isolated sentence out of a whole life and try to make a whole philosophy around it, but try to find out what they were aiming for, what they knew and sometimes more importantly what they didn't know.

Gus:  You mean try and find out what the complete srategy would have been had they got that far.

X:  Yes it's almost like your teacher going through a twenty chapter book but they died after only reaching chapter twelve. So what these people would do is stick at chapter twelve and never go any further, but what we have to do is take up the book with our fellow students, follow any notes your teacher left and go as far as you can until you can find a new teacher.

Gus:  That's absolutely fascinating and I know that when I myself began to seriously study the life of Marcus Garvey I noted some very interesting Islamic connections also. Now obviously you would not be recommending anybody to join the type of group or people you so vividly described but are there any interesting groups around at the moment you could tell us about or that you would urge people to join?

X:  I really would not like to encourage people to join specific groups unless they find that they and the people in that group actually share specific goals or ambitions. I would prefer like minded people to come together and learn from the best of those other groups.

Gus:  What about your own movement, are there specific things you would like to pass on from your own experiences?

X:  Well amongst the groups I'm closely affiliated with there is lot which we could put into practice here, especially and most importantly the appointment of Amirs from amongst ourselves.

Gus:  Could you explain what an Amir is?

X:  To put it very simply, an Amir is someone empowered by a group of people to be their leader and then the people who empower him also give him their loyalty, trust and obedience. So it's about people choosing someone they know to be the one who leads, not like what happens today when a fraction of the population vote for someone they have never met or even set eyes on to be there so called political representative.

Gus:  So you are saying that this is a traditional form of Islamic Governance?

X:  I am saying more than that, I'm saying that this is a traditional form of African governance which was the pattern wherever there were successful communities, and this is one of the things we discovered by taking an honest and unbiased look at traditional forms of African leadership.

Gus:  If this is true which I don't doubt, then can you explain why muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and African countries such as Zimbabwe or even Nigeria do not conform to this view?

X:  I don't claim to be an expert on international affairs but it is clear that Pakistan has simply followed the pattern of its former colonial master England or Britain which is completely alien to Islam and even to the East Asian people and the results are obvious, and the same can be said of Zimbabwe. In fact in the Gulf war the Pakistani government sided with the American forces but the Pakistan soldiers sided with the people of Iraq. This is clearly a government that does not represent the people, much like we have in America today. As for Saudi Arabia this just exposes the hypocrisy of countries like this one and their crusade for democracy. It's obvious that because of the oil wealth in Saudi Arabia and the fact that the regime there is totally subservient to the wishes of the West that no one really gives a damn if there is democracy or not.

Gus:  Nigeria?

X:  What I've just said probably all relates to Nigeria in some way but really we need a whole program to discuss Nigeria. You see Nigeria is effectively at least two distinct and very different countries, the North and the South, but effectively what has been done is that all the real Amirs have been wiped out and replaced with people who are no more than puppets who parade themselves on public holidays. If one really would like to understand this further I suggest reading a book called Letter to An African Muslim by Sheikh AbdalQuadir Al Murabit it explains this scenario clearly.

Gus:  We will come to books later, but are you saying that the current Muslim leaders have betrayed their people?

X:  What I am clearly saying is that there has been a global betrayal which has the majority of the world's population enslaved to a system based on pure myth and that at this time I know of no country which is exempt from this masonic control system.

Gus:  What exactlty is this myth.

X:  Well part of the myth is that bits of paper called banknotes are actually real money.

Gus:  So it sounds like you are an advocate of going back to the gold standard and linking the value of the dollar to gold.

X:  It goes much further than that. We have to begin to reject the whole banking system and begin to trade using currencies with real value such as gold and silver, for while we chase bits of paper the bankers and their allies are grabbing the gold and the land and everything else of real value.

Gus:  It's coming across as though you are totally at odds with the state of society and the democratic system of electing leaders and would like to replace it with something more community based. Am I right?

X:  What I would say is to look at South Africa. We are reportedly four months from an election yet still everyone knows the ANC is going to win and Nelson Mandela will be president. Now you may think the reason we know this is because the ANC and Nelson Mandela are so popular. The truth is there are many other groups with much more credibility than the ANC but those who control the media have not chosen them to be the new overseers they've chosen Mr Mandela and all the Jews and Indians that make up the ANC. Now if you look closely enough you'll find people like McMillan Book publishers have already signed major contracts with the ANC in advance of any election, and the more you look the more corruption you will see. The truth is that the South African banks have ran out of people to enslave in the debt trap of mortgages and loans and it's time to pick the ripe fruit of over thirty million black people just there for the taking.

Gus:  You certainly have a clear and even unique critique of the current world political and economic situation. Is this now a common understanding among Muslims or are you still very much a minority voice even amongst the Muslims?

X:  I think that most people whether Muslim or not know that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way we have been forced to live today, and there are many individuals and groups who voice concern over these matters. In particular I can think of those affiliated to the League of the Black Stone movement both here in America and also in Africa, Europe and the Caribbean, and there is also the European based Murabitun movement amongst others. Both these groups have written much material on the myth of the world banking system and the control the international financiers have over all of our lives.

Gus:  Unfortunately time won't permit us to delve into these matters sufficiently but I do know that this is a very important and interesting topic.

X:  On the contrary, as you said these are important matters and I think that your listeners deserve at least that much respect to once in a while here a discussion on topics that are real and have such a total and devastating effect on all our lives.

Gus:  OK what I propose is that we come back to what I agree are very important matters in the last half of the show. However you did mention books and normally on this show I like my guests to recommend three books to our listeners, and I'm sure you can come up with an interesting selection.

X:  Sounds like pressure from the producer?

Gus:  Lets just say it's getting hot but we will continue on this theme. I'm sure you'll be the first to agree that we could spend a whole programme on these matters but maybe the books you suggest may actually cover these very matters.

X:  I'll go with that but I'll have to think a little about the books, but first one has to remember that books contain information and not knowledge. Knowledge only comes through action, by doing something, but on saying that I would definitely have to recommend something by that great African leader and Scholar Sheikh Uthman Dan Fodio. Many Muslims will be surprised when they find out who he was, what he did and the clarity of his teachings. My personal favourite is his book entitled "A Handbook on Islam" which is exactly as it says, a very small handbook for Mulims telling them all they need to know to carry out there duties as Muslims. It's as relevant to the new Muslim as it is to those who have been Muslims all there lives, and this is a pure teaching coming straight out of West Africa.

I would then have to go for one of the Black Stone publications probably "The Next Step." It is actually a book which was sent to me from the Amir of the Caribbean community in London a month or so ago. It contains all the papers that were delivered at a conference they had recently entitled The Next Step. The beauty of it is that these men follow the exact path of Sheikh Uthman and it is all totally relevant to today's situation here in America, in England, in Africa and wherever you find our people. The book highlights the need for individuals to recognise their Creator, come together and strive to establish something positive. It also shows the level of conspiracy, slander and even torture that these people will undoubtedly face in establishing justice in the land.

Now assuming that your listeners have read all the biographies I could recommend my final choice would have to be a book by a dear friend of mine born in Zambia but also living in England, by the name of Ahmad Thompson. He has written many very informative books which should all be read if possible, but I would especially recommend one entitled "Dajjal." At the moment copies of that book are like gold dust but I expect the publishers will do another reprint soon because of the demand. When you read this book the first time some of the revelations seem hard to believe but they are actually very easy to verify or confirm. Then you begin to see the country we live in for what it actually is.

Gus:  That sounds like a very interesting selection and I look forward to the usual comments from those listeners that take up the challenge. Now I noticed that you mentioned a man by the name of Sheikh Uthman Dan Fodio and I know that you have actually changed your name to Uthman Malik Abdal Hakim. Is there a connection?

X:  Most definitely.

Gus:  Before you explain that connection let me point out to the listeners that the second part of your name is Malik and we all know that Malcolm X later became know as Malik Shabazz, maybe you could explain the whole importance of names in traditional African and Muslim societies?

X:  I don't want to portray the image that names and style of dress and things like this as being all important when there are so many other serious matters to address, but how we name our children says a lot about who we are and with muslims the first things we like to portray is our love of our creator, Allah. Hence all the names beginning with "Abdal" which means slave or servant of. That is why you have Abdal Hakim, slave of The Wise or Abdal Rahman slave or The Merciful and of course Abdallah, slave of Allah. These are all names or attributes of Allah and the muslim is pleased to be the slave of Allah, and no one else.

The word Malik means King or Owner but it is also the name of one of Islams greatest scholars the great Imam Malik of Madina. The significance of this is that the true fully blown practice of Islam was there in Madina 1400 years ago and it was the best community ever seen on the face of the earth, but like all communities and civislisations it has its high point and then it declines. What Imam Malik did was to record that high point that had been transmitted to, and practiced by, the companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, before it declined. What he recorded in his book called "Al Muwatta" is the purest source of islam available today. The methods he described are what established justice in North Africa and all over West Africa and this teaching is being continued in Northern Nigeria today and also by the groups already mentioned, and no one, muslim, or non muslim can pinpoint a more just society or system of governance.

Uthman was one of the first and closest advisors of the Prophet peace be upon him and was also the name of the great already mentioned Sheikh from West Africa who against all odds fought to establish just governance. Like the Prophet peace be upon him he combined the roles of spiritual teacher and military leader. He also died at the same age of sixty three.

Gus:  What you have just told me is truly remarkable, for in my own experience the only name I usually hear connecting Africa to Islam is Bilal.

X:  Yes Bilal, may Allah be pleased with him, was a very remarkable man and was one of the earliest people to recognise the prophecy of Muhammad peace be upon him and many of the common Muslim practices today have come through Bilal, may Allah be pleased with him.

Gus:  So is this all new information just discovered or what, or has there been some form of cover up conspiracy?

X:  I would say that a pure transmission of what Islam teaches is directly opposed to the existent power system that dominates the world today in almost every way. So these dominant forces cannot stop people becoming Muslims just as I cannot make anyone become a Muslim. Therefore through the means of manipulation available to them through their control of the media and economic resources they ensure that we are taught a passive Islam with no teeth which is not the Islam of change or progress,and those who oppose this and recognise what's going on are either branded as Muslim fundamentalists, jailed or killed. Otherwise they are despised by the powers that be and disbelieved by other Muslims to such an extent that they are branded as insane and either locked up or discredited to such an extent no one takes them seriously.

Gus:  You are saying that a pure Islam is dialectically opposed to the current national and world power system. So let me put this scenario to you. The Muslims and there supporters begin to recognise all that you are saying as true and begin to organise as you have suggested. Now there is a well known saying that one man cannot serve two masters. So what happens when the state says we will not tolerate any civil disobedience and decides to curtail your actions severely. Do we get a repeat of the days of Martin Luther King.

X:  You and I Both Know that that Kind of passive resistance never achieved anything. It was the actions the rest of us were taking and were prepared to take that forced them to make concessions, but to save face they publicly made the concessions to the pacifists.

Gus:  So if you reject this pacifist stance are you then calling the Muslims to armed struggle?

X:  I think we have to slow down a little here because there are some important issues that all of us have to take on board and it begins on a very local level. Malcolm X, myself and those with us used to encourage everyone to join some group, to organise. Now this path is about change, so that was the beginning. The next step is leadership. You can call your leader any name you like, chairman, president, supreme commander, amir, don, anything, but what you must ensure is that you take the best one of you as your leader and people know who the best one amongst them is or it can easily be agreed. The next thing is that you give him your loyalty and your obedience and that you learn to trust him even when he makes mistakes. If he does something wrong reprimand him but continue to support him. The only guideline, choose someone who is not looking for leadership. In a very short space of time your community will be transformed and even those who don't like you will respect you and you yourself will be surprised at what now becomes possible. Then as a community together we begin to look at these things we have mentioned.

Gus:  Does this leadership permeate through society, do women choose their leader and men theirs?

X:  No no no. One community, one leader. When you give your allegiance to your leader you give it for your whole family men women and children. Otherwise you may end up having no more than a mens club or woman's club. Whoever takes on this task of leadership is leader of a whole community and you define the community by the people loyal to that leader. However this does not detract from the fact that men must do their thing and women must do their thing and these things are not the same although they should be towards the same end.

Gus:  Could this not be interpreted as making women once more second class citizens?

X:  Only by the most ignorant people.

Gus:  OK but what are the different arenas where men and women operate. Are you against for example men and women sharing the same office, or in my case the same studio.

X:  It goes way beyond that. Let me explain. The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him was a political, spiritual and military leader and he is the best example we have of manhood. Now it is said that the three best women who ever lived were Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet, Maryam or Mary the mother of Jesus and Assiya the wife of Pharaoh and therefore foster mother to Moses. So the complete man comes as political, spiritual and militant man as well as husband and father and the complete woman comes as wife mother and teacher. So in order for men to live as men should and women to live as real women we have to recognise our proper roles and then by taking on clear leadership we have to create or at least take a space where we can practice this way of life and if necessary defend it.

Gus:  Apart from who you have already mentioneed who stands out as examples of this type of person?

X:  There was amongst the women Bilquis otherwise known as the Queen of Sheba, and there was also Nan Asmau the daughter of Sheikh Uthman who wrote many books herself and countless others whose names are not so well known.

Gus:  Amongst the men

X:  One doesn't have to look any further than the Prophet Musa or Moses, and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them. They both came as spiritual leaders, military leaders and political leaders and they both brought a whole new teaching to there people which was in harmony with what all the Prophets before them came with. So any militant movement most embody these three strands along with economic self sufficiency.

Gus:  Are you saying that this recognition of the role of men and women constitutes militancy?

X:  Let's just say that clear leadership leads to clear decisions and a clear path, and that this combined with a clear worship of the Creator leads to justice being established as it was in Madina, in North Africa and in West Africa, and then it was taken from Africa into Spain, in Europe, and people must study the history of Spain and see what happened there and indeed what is happening there today. When the last of the Moors left Spain, Spain returned to the dark ages of backwardness and ignorance. There is a beatiful book entitled The Golden Age of the Moors which I would urge all your listeners to read, but also one has to look at what happened to the jews who were also run out of Spain. You will realise that they carried corruption and usury everywhere they went.

Gus:  I notice you slipped in another book there.

X:  I'm in a generous mood today.

Gus:  Well you've certainly been genorous with your wealth of information which I for one have found most interesting and stimulating.

X:  A friend of mine from Zaria in Northen Nigeria has likened information from books to reading a menu. He says that you can ooh! and aah! all day over the menu but to really taste the food you have to eat it. So therefore it's one thing reading books and having a vast amount of information in your head but you only gain true knowledge from action. So I can only urge everyone to act according to the best of what they know or believe and I hope that today has made a meaningful contribution to even one persons life.

Gus:  As promised I would like to get back to this topic of economics and finance. If we are to wean ourselves away from the current system what do you suggest as an alternative?

X:  It starts from community. Once people begin to gather in communities they can begin to decide what is an acceptable form of currency for them. The reality is that this step is enough to make a difference and once you put the best man in charge at some stage you will have to face the wider issues, and in fact you will then be capable of facing the wider issues and one of the wider issues will be protecting what we put in place.

Gus:  In the short time we have left maybe you could tell us what your plans are in the near future. I know you're shortly off to Europe. Can we expect any major announcements on your return. In fact what are you actually going to do in Europe?

X:  Before going to London I'll actually be linking up with Amir Abdullah Powell in Charleston and depending on what he decides a party of us should be travelling to Brixton in London to meet with the community there. I think there should also be men and women from South Africa and Nigeria arriving around the same time.

Gus:  All Muslims?

X:  Most likely, but more importantly all very much on the path I've described.

Gus:  So what's the nature of this event taking place in London?

X:  Actually the main event is actually taking place in a place called Granada in the South of Spain.

Gus:  It's beginning to sound like a European tour. I hope you will get round to telling me what all this movement and travel is leading to:

X:  The event we're travelling to is acually known as a Moussem. It's a gathering of Muslims from all over the world who recognise the same patterns that we recognise and are actively involved in putting these things into action. It's a most beautiful gathering of some of the best people on the earth and I cannot describe the benefits derived from being there, but only Allah knows what's in store for us this time, or indeed if we will even make it there.

Gus:  So this is somewhat of a spiritual journey or a pilgrimmage.

X:  I wouldn't describe it as such although there will be a spiritual element, a social element and a political element, but it's a lot more than that which I cannot even begin to describe.

Gus:  I wish you every success on your journey and I only ask that you come back and tell us about it in the near future. Its been a pleasure and a great honour talking to you.

X:  Thank you and your listeners for being so patient in hearing my small contribution. I hope someone finds something I said to be useful.

Gus:  Let me quickly say that my director tells me the phones haven't stopped ringing since we've been on air but unfortunately we cannot take calls on this programme. In fact we've had one call accusing you of being unpatriotic and anti semetic, one or two calling you sexist and communist. However my producer tells me several callers have asked if you have any public speaking engagements lined up but an unprecedented number have called up to offer you their support and would like to know how to get in touch. We have also had a few accusing you of being a warmonger. Would you like to respond quickly.

X:  Only to say that it's always the case that the first people to shout anti this and anti that are the people who benefit most from all these usurious practices of oppression. I mean who runs the banks, controls the media and has a firm grip on all the trade in gold and silver around the world. It's always the same set of people who are always shouting out how much they were oppressed by Hitler. I tell you Hitler was bad but he was not mad. If you want to talk about war then why don't they try and justify all the wars the United States or the United Nations have been involved in over the last twenty years. Then you will begin to see that plain greed has been the cause of most of them and the bankers always win.

Gus:  I'm afraid we have to end there. Ralston X otherwise called Uthman Malik Abdal Hakim. Once again, thank you.